Saturday, October 25, 2008

Breath of Life

I must say that "Independent Fundamental Baptists" are some of the most asinine individuals in the world. I'll just post what I said about this individual a while back to give you an idea of what she's about.

I joined this board close to or over two years ago because she was making a libelous statement against a man of God, and while I've matured and mellowed out a lot in the time since then, she's been just as preachy and mouthy as the day I first came here. She apparently has no idea of how a woman's supposed to act, and in my opinion has absolutely no place moderating anything except a cookie sheet. I've watched her mouth off constantly and I've refrained myself as well as possible, but sometimes she gets to the point where it's ignorant not to call her on it. She has a problem with her mouth that her husband needs to get under control, but if he's unaware or incapable then someone else needs to point it out.

That's how it's always been, yet for some reason that board still allows her to be a moderator, in authority over men.

That aside, let's tackle the subject that sparked the post and the title thereof. The OP (opening/original post/poster) provided a partial quote of one of Dr. Ruckman's Genesis Bible classes. One of the best ways to smear someone is to take their words out of context and not provide the explanation they themselves provide, usually directly after the quoted part. While the actions of the OP are rather inflammatory, I will say this for them: they attempted to provide a Biblical rebuttal, and while it was far from satisfactory or conclusive, it was better than anyone else did in that topic.

While the actual quote is worthy of address, I'd prefer to point out some other things first. I don't know who all reads or learns of my posts on this blog, and I don't particularly care. Nor do I worry whether it offends someone or not. I pose my statements to be as unoffensive as I personally can, but I'm not going to bend over backwards in the attempt to appease people; if someone gets offended by what I say, then they should take a good long look at Psalm 119:165 and get back with me.

The Board of which I spoke (and posted an excerpt from above) is extremely biased, from an outsider's (and former insider's) view. Time and again, the female moderator slandered a great old man of God groundlessly, yet when I would speak up in his defense I would be labeled as a "heretic" or a "Ruckmanite" or "immature and impulsive." Biblical evidence remaining strongly on my side was never enough: they refused, as a whole (the leadership), to acknowledge when anything wrong was done. I was wrongly banned at least twice, and never once was I apologized to, and the final ban was done against the very rules of the board. Moreover, almost the entire population of the board is rabidly anti-Ruckman, and jumps on every single opportunity to slash and claw at those that support him or any of his teachings. This is backwards and unintelligent to the extreme; I suppose it also doesn't help that the majority of the members are women, who sometimes seem to experience their lady issues at the same time of the month and thereby rain hellfire and damnation on the rest of the people there.

Ok, about the quote from Dr. Ruckman.

He said that man becomes a living soul when he breathes; God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul. That is Bible, that is fact, and if you don't like it, then go suck your thumb. Now, the issue arises that we as Christians believe that life begins at conception. Yes, it does, very clearly, and even Doc believes that from the next part of the quote that the OP failed to include. According to Leviticus 17:11, the life of the flesh is in the blood. Scientifically, blood is transferred at conception from the male's sperm to the woman's egg (the mother and child have completely separate circulatory systems; their blood never mixes), so the life of that child begins at conception. Nothing Doc said disagrees with this. The problem arises when people lack the ability to understand the clear-cut 6th grade English of the King James Bible. Behold, a demonstration.

Genesis 2: living soul.

Leviticus 17: life of the flesh.

Soul != flesh

For those of you who are familiar with bash (UNIX terminal language), the third expression should clear it up. (!= means "is not equal to") Man is a trichotomy; Spirit, Soul and Body (in that order). God fashioned the Body out of dust, breathed into him His Spirit, and with that breath, man became a living Soul. All three are present right there: Spirit, Soul and Body. Following?

In Leviticus, the topic is not the soul, but the living flesh. In fact, the only use of the word "soul" in that chapter is used to mean an individual, not the part of a human trichotomy. God is speaking of completely mundane or fleshy things in that chapter; in fact the whole book is dedicated to the Law that the Jews were required to keep.

To sum it up, I don't necessarily agree with Dr. Ruckman that babies aren't souls before birth and do not go to Heaven if they die. I do not, however, have any way to disprove his statements. As such, I'm not brash and arrogant enough to prate like I know so much better than a man that's studied and defended the King James Bible for most of his adult life. I do not agree, but I cannot disprove it. Therefore I will remain quiet on the subject until the Holy Spirit of God gives me a reason to do otherwise.

At conception, a life begins. I am not God, and I didn't create life, so I simply have to go by what the Bible says. Fleshly life begins with blood, and according to Genesis, that Soul was created with the breath of life. Whether or not that extends to where people without the breath of life do not have souls, I do not know, but neither does anyone else, since it is not quickly apparent from Scripture.

What I do know, however, is that people have a tendency to run their mouths (or their keyboards) without engaging their hippocampi, and the result is usually that they appear ignorant and tick me off with unfounded and Biblically invalid statements. As a future father and 100% pro-life individual, I believe that all human life is sacred. I don't agree that rape is grounds for abortion, or even high-risk pregnancies. However, I cannot throw out the Bible to cling to my other beliefs, and anyone that would do so is neither a Bible Believer nor a true Christian (Christian meaning "Christ-like).

I will apologize if I've offended anyone; that truly is not my intention: I simply want to put the Biblical truth out in the open and help keep the reputation of a great man of God from being sullied by out-of-context quotes.


Kathie said...

I can't believe that some people think this post sounds hateful. :P

Rachel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kathie said...


I'm glad tomorrow's Sunday. We can all go to church and forget about the discussion on OB for a while. :-)

Vince LaRue said...

Of course we're going to disagree on some things; you have one view of Scripture and I another. However, I agree with Doc about 90% of the time (at least, that I know of), and if you're honest with yourself, there really is no Scriptural rebuttal to this. I have the mp3 of the class where he said this if you want it; in fact I might host it just for the heck of it.

Your husband didn't include Doc's explanation; perhaps the site he got it from didn't and as such your husband wouldn't be held responsible, but Bro. Muller provided the omitted part in that thread so there is no longer any excuse. Doc simply said that he doesn't think it was right to force those women into having children from rape: he didn't say that they should be aborted, he simply said that he believes forcing them to carry the children to term was wrong. While it's a clear-cut issue in my mind, I can't say I'd blame the poor women in that situation.

As far as KG, she has a mouth no matter what subject is at hand. It just makes itself incredibly apparent when Doc is the issue at hand. I've addressed her libel multiple times, but she was never dealt with; I suppose the moderators are above common courtesy and the rules (since I was banned contrary to said rules). ;)

Mrs W said...

I don't know what to think about Dr Ruckman's beliefs in this area, but I don't know enough about it to know what to think. A lot of the other stuff that I heard before I liked his teaching sounded wacky too and it ended up being right, so we just need to be real careful.

About OB, I don't know why Kathie is still wasting her time there since they hate her anyway lol.

Although, I'm glad Suzy finally came out and said that Ruckman wasn't saved in her opinion, we all know shes "hinted" at it several times.

Katie said...


Vince LaRue said...

Well I got sick of pandering to that hormone-imbalanced, loud-mouthed woman. As far as I've been able to tell from her posts on the forum, she's closer to Proverbs 7 than 31.

Kathie said...

I'm off OB for now, so I'm not wasting time there anymore! hehe

PastorVanhoose said...

I do not appreciate the character assassination you have levied against my wife. She is a Godly woman that is under subjection to me - Her Husband. I agree that Pete is a crackpot who has no business in the pulpit. He is a serial adulterer and has crazy theology. I am not a brawler, but if you would say those things to my wife and I could easily reach your physical locale I would beat the devil out of you. If you would like to speak to me face to face about this my address is 911 Durham Rd, Penndel, PA. Also, you are a wimp to hide behind a keyboard and talk about people you do not know.

Read this well and then go ahead and delete it. Cause that is what wimps do.

Exactly Yours,
Pastor Danny Vanhoose
Grace Independent Baptist Church
Penndel, PA

Vince LaRue said...

Well, sir, you obviously don't know much about me or those I choose to associate with. I apologize about the offense to your wife, but the very reason I joined the forum in question is because of her outrageous lies about Dr. Ruckman, who you are very wrong about, and I would be more than willing to address any questions or issues you might have about him. She has never ceased to slander him publicly, using repeated lies against him, even when they were pointed out as such. At the same time, every word I said I meant, I defend, and I can prove to be completely true.

I do not blame you for being angry over the things I said; were those things said about my wife, I also would be incensed. However, I would also search to see that they were not true.

Please do not underestimate or define me before you know me; I assure you that you do not, in fact, know me, or anything about me. The only reason I put the issue here is because of an inflammatory outburst on the forum, and because I had been improperly and incorrectly banned from there and as such could not address it in person at the location of its occurrence.

Mrs W said...

I didn't see anything said here that wasn't true. Pastor Vanhoose obviously doesn't know you Vince, he thinks you are going to delete his comment. Just coz that's what OB mods do doesn't mean everyone is wimpy enough to do it.

Anonymous said...

I've read both the Online Baptist posts and the blog here. I must say that Peter Ruckman's followers would rather fight for him than for Christ and the truth.

I don't have a "dog" in this hunt; just my observations!

Vince LaRue said...

golfingct123, I've spent more time defending the Lord Jesus Christ and witnessing to people than I have on defending Doc, but as a Bible Believer who actually knows Dr. Ruckman (as opposed to most of the people on tat forum), I'm the only person truly qualified to talk about Doc, and as such I'll defend him when he's slandered, much as I would anyone who was lied about.

Anonymous said...

Mr. LaRue,

Do you really believe what you are putting forth? Or are you simply too proud to admit that Mr. Ruckman is in error?


Vince LaRue said...

golfingct123, I believe the Bible. The Bible is correct, and like I explained in my blog, Doc agrees with the Bible. If you disagree, I'd suggest addressing the issue yourself. Don't run your mouth without a reason and without your own defense; it tends to make oneself look ignorant (I know from experience).

Rachel said...

In reading your blog post yet again..simply because I'm just dumbfounded by it (not in a good way) I realized that you didn't just sully KG's reputation, but also made derogatory remarks about all the women on Online Baptist. Uh, also Katy-Anne you say that the people on OB hate Kathie...interesting that no one on OB made a hatred filled blog about her anywhere online. Also, Vince, your wife too is a moderator on a forum "over men"...

Anyways I was just rereading the post to try to make sense of it all today. I still can't seem to make sense of why you have done what you have done. :(

rancher824 said...

Vince, I am amazed that anyone could dip so low as you have in this blog. Not only saying you would like to curse, but implying that my Lord and Saviour did curse. Would you please give me chapter and verse where he called a woman a female dog. He spoke of the Gentiles as dogs, yes, but not as a curse as you have implied. Past that you also said about a friend of mine "That's how it's always been, yet for some reason that board still allows her to be a moderator, in authority over men.
" That last phrase is what I would like us to look at. "In authority over men. Now I would like to ask you to what message board did Paul write that a woman is not to have authority over a man??? I know it must be one of the New Testament message boards. I am sure you would not be taking something written to one group and applying it to another. We all know you are so much better at "rightly dividing" that I am sure it must be to a new testament message board that I just have not found in my Bible yet.

John said...


Kathie said...

Rachel, the only reason I have moderator priveleges is so that I can edit the forum layout and do things to the ladies' forum on our site. I don't do anything to posts or have any "authority" the way women moderators on OB do.

I completely agree that women shouldn't be moderators on any site. It's just like women shouldn't be bosses at the workplace. It puts a woman in a position that can cause her to act like what some would refer to as a "b-word". I think the reason some women act that way online is because they aren't saying those words to someone's face.

In real life, I'm sure this particular moderator is a normal lady. On the board, however, I've seen her say things that aren't so ladylike. I can understand how that happens... because I even admit that sometimes I get carried away on blogs and forums and say things that don't sound right coming from a lady. It's so easy to do when you're just typing it, not saying it to someone's face.

Rachel said...

I think what a person types online is pretty much just an extension of what they feel and believe in their heart. "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." I don't recall seeing anything anywhere near as harsh as what I saw on this blog the other day. I have been talked about by people in person and online, but never in a way that the moderator was talked about on here. Well, her husband has been her defense as well as others that know her. She's a kind and godly woman, even though she disagrees with you about Ruckman. Do you know that in all the time I've talked with her she's never had a bad thing to say about anyone? How's that for character? Certainly something I think all of us (myself included) can learn from.

Anyways this is the last time I look at this blog for a while. I'm thankful for all I have learned about Ruckman through the discussion and things said here. I've learned a lot.

One day we'll all stand before the Lord Jesus Christ Himself and give an answer to Him for all that we do. We'll see Him in His glory and wish we'd lived for Him alone and done all for His glory. We'll wish that we'd taken an even STRONGER stand against things that are not in His Bible. We'll wish we'd had more charity toward others...saved and lost alike...1 Corinthians 13, such a chapter! I think we'll all see ourselves as nothing and our egos will be entirely deflated as we stand in His glorious presence.

What a day that will be. Sweet day and a sobering one. As Katy-Anne has said before in one of her posts...let's live in the light of that day. Let's all try to remember WHO we are to serve with all our being. It's not a mere man, but the Lord Jesus Christ.

So anyways, dear's my bedtime or way past actually. I'm laying this thing to rest in my heart. Praying for everyone involved. I love you all so much in the Lord. Let's live for HIM...let's serve Him in truth all the days of our lives.